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Need to purchase a new desktop PC. Any advice? Needs to satisfy a bit of mid-range gaming for my son.
- clacke repeated this.
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Build your own. For a little more money than what you would spend to buy one, you will get a much better system that is more flexible. Here is a basic guide from last year that would be a good reference framework if you choose to build your own. https://indy.im/url/5766838
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@mcnalu Build one yourself? Is it going to be a Windows on it?
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@zoowar @inscius thanks. I built the last one, and might build this one. Keeping an open/lazy mins :)
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@inscius doesn't have to run windows, but wine isn't quite up to one or two games my son likes.
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@inscius but it definitely will have Linux on it. My son wants at least two distros!
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@mcnalu I wouldn't agree with the "build your own" sentiment; life's too short. Are you looking for Windows or Linux/Steam?
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@mcnalu So are you going to have several harddrives? Or is small form factor ok? Tho ofc that may be more expensive / performance.
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@mcnalu @inscius that should be mind. Mins isn't even a word. Auto correct is dumb.
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@windigo more the latter, but if a decent PC came with windows that'd be ok, though it'd soon get Linux too.
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@mcnalu Don't mins words? :-)
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@steveland looks great. Not sure how I get one here in the UK though.
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Buy (or build) as much computer as you can afford. I never see anyone who says "My computer is too fast, has too much RAM & disk space."
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My 2 cent as a luddite:
- Don't aim at top speed, huge RAM & disk space. It will only make everyone in the family crave for more.
- Get a used one second hand. Don't contribute to e-waste, exploiting labour conditions in production / assembling of parts and in hazardous recycling.
- Even 2 years old PC are cheap to buy and easy to find.
-What are the negative consequences of the purchase? And who is most effected by them?
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@mcnalu Another way to look at it: buy (or build) a computer that will still be useful two years from now. If no one will use it because it takes ages to do anything, you'll wish you had purchased something better.
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@bobjonkman cheapo desktop systems have often proved a false economy in various ways.
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@simsa0 I agree it's important to avoid buy and bin mentality. My existing system was built with decent, new but not expensive components and has been easy to maintain and repair for at least 6 years. But it's having issues now that are annoyingly frequent and that I can't solve.
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@mcnalu buy an iMac
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@mcnalu (oh how I love trolling.)
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All good. I just wanted to add a different stance to those prevalent in the thread.
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@simsa0 Used computers are a very good idea. There are resellers who refurbish and give you a warranty.
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does power consumption count? In that case, older kit may not be so good...
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Exactly. No need to buy new machines (exception: you're into gaming or do high performing CAD) at all.
Usually you can get around w/ very little brand-new tech: All but one of my machines of the last 15 years, and all my mobiles have been second hand. I only bought 3 brand-new CD players (low price-segment) and I don't use a fridge for 27 years now.
But perhaps my needs are simply not that excessive and can be satisfied w/ garbage-tech.
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Do you have any data to support your assumption? I assume the difference in power consumption between a new and a 10 year old power supply in negligible. @simsa0
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That is IMO indeed the main serious argument for renewal of equipment. But if I don't just count my individual, "localized" costs at home (costs of power consumption, etc) but factor in the "contextual" costs of new stuff (production costs, recycling costs, polution, e-waste, hazardous and exploitive labour conditions like Foxconn, etc.), then I guess one is most often still better off w/ used older equipment than brand new one.
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@clacke on average, used computers are a very bad idea. They tend to use not only more energy every hour they're on (bad for your wallet and bad for the earth) but be also slower at what they do so that extra energy is also used over a longer time to get the job done. The best thing to do with used computers is to properly recycle them for raw materials (not parts).
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if the power consumption is the same, your new PC is getting 10x more work done. But no data.
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@zoowar modern chips use less eney, modern hard drives spin down or use variable speed to save enegy, etc. It adds up to a considerable difference.
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No, I don't have any data or numbers. Perhaps we even have the phenomenon taht power consumption w/ individual tech goes up, not down, due to the peripherals and the power intensity of the hardware. I don't know.
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@zoowar OTH, modern graphics uses a lot more energy, so don't buy "more" graphics than you actually need. You do not need super-duper 3D graphics for office work - or for playing music for that matter.
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even if programs today demand far more machine resources than earlier ones?
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Yes, but we've been "modern" for many years now.
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@zoowar the question is, do you actually use (or need) it? Do you buy a 3D-capable graphics card for office owrk? If so, you're just wasting energy and raw materials.
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@zoowar in fact, when buying Nikola, I had to specifically search for a "2D" graphics card because I do not use or want "3D" anything. They exist, but it is "assumed" that everyone wants 3D now. That assumption also harms the environment
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The root of this discussion is a gaming computer.
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An hour of gaming is an hour of gaming with both a new and a 10 year old PSU. I'm assuming that the power consumption differential is negligible.
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well, I think you are likely correct. Unless new power supplies are generally lower power, on which I'm not prepared to comment. What I was trying to get at is that in absolute terms, the power efficiency of computation is orders of magnitude better than 10 years ago, but you are right that this may not be reflected in actual usage.
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This matters for data centers in which idle systems are not earning money.
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@zoowar I assume your assumption is wrong: you don't game with a PSU, you game with a system. All components count towards energy consumption: PSU, HDs, graphics card, monitor - even the fans. A "general purpose" computer is nearly always unfit for the purpose it's bought for and wastes energy. If you pick and choose components for the machine's actual purpose you can save.
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@zoowar @nds this also matters at home where idle computers running consume power. ALL wasted power harms the earth.
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#ftr I was asking for data so I could verify my assumption, which differs from yours, not asking for you to prove your assumption.
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nicely put.
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@luke noooooooooooo
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I found you a cooling fan spec'ed out for serious gaming in case you decide to build your own. https://i.imgur.com/nNjeLim.jpg
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@zoowar @mcnalu bwahahaha!
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@mk Depends on usage pattern. If the increased power cost over 2 years of use is less than cost of new computer, I'd say buy an old one.
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@nds Desktops and laptops spend most of their time waiting for the user. If it's too slow for modern use, usually it's the RAM.
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@clacke you have a point :)
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@clacke but of power usage is not just a matetr of cost (to the user) - it's also cost to the environment
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@mk Absolutely. Monetary cost is by no means a perfect measure, but it's decent. Power at factory prob cheaper+dirtier than yours.
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@mk Lacking a true life cycle analysis, monetary cost is my go-to heuristic or boundary condition.
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@mcnalu To answer your original @question, see http://url.federati.net/0aniG if you wish to find something with #GNU + #Linux preinstalled (even some #UK vendors at bottom of page). I'm not a gamer, but I've generally purchased #Windows machines and either dual-booted or replaced the original OS.
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Walt? my love! To #provide replacement to EDK2Duet bootloader sourceforge
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@lnxw48 thanks. I do like to make the effort of buying pre-installed Linux PCs. I'll look into ones in that list that ship in the UK.
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@question Is the EDK2Duet bootloader on #SourceForge going to be part of your first-bot-to-boot tests for the #bots that will be part of #skynet?
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@how old are you?
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@question Let's leave it at "over 21"
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leave out a n d the duke looked sick